Some Area Schools Do Show Disdain for the Pledge of Allegiance—I Have Seen It
In response to the recent concern over certain aspects of the recitation of The Pledge of Allegiance at Mill Creek Elementary School, Colin M. McGroarty deserves strong support for his commitment to patriotism and liberty.
- The following is a letter to the editor from Geneva resident Andrea Cladis.
In response to the recent news surrounding stipulations of student recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance at Mill Creek Elementary School in Geneva, I just have one question, “What is so wrong about teaching our children to respect the country they live in and to pay tribute to those who have sacrificed and fought earnestly for our liberties?”
As a college graduate who is near completion of post-graduate studies in education leading to the acquisition of licensure in English and French, I have spent the past two years teaching and observing at several schools in the Western suburbs. From what I have witnessed as far as disdain for the pledge and complete disregard for patriotism and American values in numerous local schools, I firmly believe in and support the sentiments projected by Colin M. McGroarty in his letter of concern to Mill Creek Elementary School.
While I do believe that the headline for this particular story was misleading on the Geneva Patch, since Colin M. McGroarty was merely citing that he “would shed blood again” to defend the liberties of this county and not actually threatening “blood” in the sense of school violence, I do give credit to the Geneva Patch for posting the complete story including the original letter from McGroarty as well as the school’s response to the concerns of this particular community member.
While I may disagree with McGroarty that fascism is being promoted in our schools, I do agree that the unifying belief in American values and exceptionalism is being denigrated on a routine basis. A few of more common occurrences that I have seen and experienced in over 20 local schools (which will remain anonymous for confidentiality purposes) including elementary, middle and high schools that I believe are actively promoting deleterious attitudes toward American values include the following:
- Some schools have completely eliminated the recitation of the pledge.
- Students have the option to either sit or stand to say the pledge — and the majority of students remain seated.
- The phrase, “Under God” has been removed in many districts as well as “with liberty and justice for all.”
- Students do not have to put their hands on their hearts while saying the pledge.
- The majority of classrooms no longer have an American flag hanging in them.
- Some schools view our country’s flag as a mere symbol that does not hold any real meaning for America — students might use one for pieces of an art project or a rug on the floor of a classroom.
- In certain social studies classes I have observed, discussions and lessons about patriotism, freedom and the founding document of our country, the Constitution, are broadly overlooked or portrayed in a negative manner.
- In one particular school, instead of saying the Pledge of Allegiance, students say the “Green Pledge” every afternoon: “I pledge allegiance to the Earth … ”
As a person who has relatives who were involved in our country’s wars and as a student who grew up saying the pledge every single day at school and thanking both veterans and God for the mere privilege to live in a free society where I could go to school and learn every day, it is incredibly disheartening to see that schools — places that were originally designed to teach citizenship and moral values have neglected or even eliminated the important task of educating young people about what it means to be an American.
Is it true that as a collective society we have abandoned the American spirit? Have we lost our sense of nationalism? Have we forgotten what it means to “stand united” or to stand proudly for our country?
A close family friend of mine, Michael Stedman, comes from a military family and has served three lengthy tours overseas in both Afghanistan and Iraq. He will be heading back next month to continue his service to our country. When speaking with him about classrooms without flags, students who make inappropriate gestures at the American flag and those students who remain slouched in their chairs during the Pledge of Allegiance he affirmatively said to me, “I stand up for this country because I believe in America, I believe in opportunity and I believe in the preservation of liberty for the next generation. I know soldiers who have fought and lost their lives or lost their limbs. Those soldiers are no longer able to physically stand up for America. Don’t you think that in the very least young Americans for whom we fight would have the decency to stand up in gratitude, in thanks, in support of their country? They should stand up for those who can’t and be eternally grateful for the blessing of living in America.”
I do not think that I could have conveyed this issue in a more powerful manner than Mr. Stedman. Our children are not entitled to freedom and they should certainly not find entitlement in apathy toward the very country in which they live. Our freedoms are based on a very simple document that a handful of brave people created over 200 years ago to fight against big government and taxation. This document, the U.S. Constitution, set our country’s founding principles of limited government, free markets and personal responsibility. The Constitution gave every single American an equal chance to pursue happiness and champion a limited government that would protect them from enemies and respect their individual rights such as free speech and the right to bear arms so as to be the last line of defense against a future tyrannical government such as the one they just broken away from in England.
As Ronald Reagan famously said, “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
I believe that as a nation we must preserve freedom for our children and in so doing, we have an obligation to teach them well. In our homes, our churches, our communities, and schools, we must make it an absolute priority to teach our children to value and cherish the liberty that has been so graciously gifted to them. After all, it is not until we can actually identify and recognize a right that we realize just how very fragile it truly is.
Ken Schuman
8:43 am on Monday, January 14, 2013
Wow. Nicely put Andrea. While I believe the actions taken by Mr. McGroarty were totally inappropriate, I do believe we have removed so many traditional ideas from our schools in an effort to make sure we don't offend the vocal minority that we risk forgetting the foundation of this country.
Jill K. Amoni
8:44 am on Monday, January 14, 2013
Exceptional perception!! Andrea articulated what is deep within my heart every single day of my life. We are threatened more by those among us who do not understand what freedom and our forefathers' sacrifices mean than we are by outside forces...
So many of our ancestors and soldiers of today have given so much to ensure us a life free of tyranny as they have valiantly fought for our rights.
Patriotism is of paramount importance...more than most understand...
Hifi
1:18 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Do any of you know why kids don't have to say the Pledge?
The majority opinion in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 1947, written by Justice Robert Jackson, is one of the great statements in American constitutional law and history.
'If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.'"
The true legacy of Barnette is less its jurisprudence than its defense of the principles of freedom. The opinion's eloquent closing has been cited in both religious and secular contexts. In part:
"To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds."
Justices Black and Douglas wrote in a concurring opinion, "Words uttered under coercion are proof of loyalty to nothing but self-interest. Love of country must spring from willing hearts and free minds, inspired by a fair administration of wise laws enacted by the people's elected representatives within the bounds of express constitutional prohibitions."
Colin C.
9:57 am on Monday, January 14, 2013
Please keep in mind that The Pledge of Allegiance is not exactly an ancient, holy text of some sort. It was not officially adopted by this Country until 1942 and its wording has been officially changed four times since.
I'm not at all sure that true patriotism is best taught by requiring children to repeatedly recite an oath every day. Especially since many of them do not have any real understanding of just what that oath truly means.
Perhaps a solid understanding of our history, our government, and how we, as a people and as a Nation have come to be in this world and what all that means might serve better to inspire true patriotism and maybe even an interest in dedicating oneself to helping the USA continue toward meeting its promise in the world.
I think that once this is achieved the Pledge will issue forth spontaneously and with real feeling and meaning.
RandomDent
11:35 am on Monday, January 14, 2013
Well said, Colin.
The opposite of allegiance is treason. I don't think it's necessary to require children to pledge not to commit treason *every day*. I could see soldiers, government officials, new citizens and such taking the pledge, or the pledge being recited at certain meetings and celebrations.
Or, if we're going to make the children do it every day, why aren't adults made to do it every time they start the workday...or go to the library...or whatever?!
I don't see how saying incomprehensible words over & over again teaches our children "to respect the country they live in". Sounds to me like the indoctrination that McGroarty is ranting against! It also seems to me that people are very sentimental about the Pledge...and getting angry over something *symbolic* rather than meaningful. Being able to say the Pledge correctly doesn't mean a person believes in "liberty and justice for all".
Jp
10:05 am on Monday, January 14, 2013
Well said, Andrea.
Jen Marsh
10:33 am on Monday, January 14, 2013
I agree and think that the Pledge of Allegiance should be separate from any school pledge. Not necessary, in my opinion, to require them to have a full understanding of American History, at an elementary school age. After all, how many Americans died so that our children can enjoy freedom. The problem with our generation and younger is that we don't know what it is like to sacrifice for the good of our country. We sure have gotten selfish.
Hifi
11:39 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Nobody died for the Pledge. The Pledge has nothing to do with honoring soldiers and war. It's for indoctrination of impressionable youth in nationalism, so that they will be loyal to a central, monopoly government at the expense of states rights.
If the Pledge has anything to do with soldiers, it is to ensure that more hapless young people will serve themselves up as fodder in the wars of oligarchs.
Karen Moore
10:43 am on Monday, January 14, 2013
Excellent article. Thank you Andrea.
Colin C.
11:40 am on Monday, January 14, 2013
I'm not so sure about that Jen, people always seem to tend to pick on our youth as being lazy, selfish, rebellious, etc. In my 40+ years of working with teens I saw some of that but certainly no more than in adults.
What I did, and do see are a lot of kids who want to learn, who serve the community in many ways, and who are opting for careers in "helping professions" of one sort or another.
From what I see I think that kids today tend to be better informed, more caring, and more goal directed than my generation (HS class of 1956) ever was.
Jen Marsh
12:15 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Colin, yes...there are great kids out there. I am talking specifically about pledging allegiance and loyalty to our country. There is nothing wrong with that, at any age. If nothing else, it should be done as a demonstration of thanks and respect to those who have served our country. No generation is perfect but doing away with the Pledge, until an older age, is not an idea that I would support. What is wrong with teaching children the Pledge? My daughter at 5, was expected to recite the Girl Scout Promise, at her troop meetings and still forgets bits of it, now at age 7. My political persuasions are quite moderate, btw.
Anonymous
12:40 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Nice comments above. However, the whole point of the story is about what one individual decided to do in front of a kindergarden class. Just because he professes he didn't mean harm and made all sorts of absolutely outrageous claims, does NOT mean they are true. For the most part they are not true and include a lot of glorification and distortions. He seriously needs some psychiatric counseling and anger management help. You do NOT know the whole story and the story behind the incident. The incident is over, but there is still a very disturbed man that is seething inside.
User Name
10:24 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Do you know the whole story?
Jp
12:45 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Jen Marsh said " The problem with our generation and younger is that we don't know what it is like to sacrifice for the good of our country."
I agree with that sentiment. For those of us that grew up in the 60's, many of our fathers fought in WWII. Although we didn't experience it firsthand, and a lot of our dads never spoke much about it, we were (and continue to be) aware of the supreme sacrifices that thousands have made for our Country.
With each passing generation we become a little more removed from the concept of duty and sacrifice, and I think we tend to take our liberty for granted.
As a grade school student I was fortunate enough to have a teacher that didn't just let us mindlessly recite "the pledge". She broke it down, line by line, and we discussed what it really meant.
Mr. McGroarty may have made some people a little nervous, but I think it's a good thing if it results in a dialog about schoolchildren being made aware of the sacrifices made by previous generations to safeguard their freedom.
Hifi
1:12 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Jp, not again! Where do you people get this idea that the Pledge of Allegiance has anything to do with honoring soldiers and war? It was written to sell flags and indoctrinate socialist-style nationalism in little kids. Period. No dead soldiers.
Jen Marsh
1:19 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Well, this is an opinion type forum, right? I am tolerant of others' opinion.
To state the obvious, the people of our country have not agreed to eliminate reciting the flag from public schools.
Jp
1:25 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
"socialist style nationalism"? Oh boy.
Hifi, there is something important about instilling pride in one's country, honoring the sacrifice of those who fought and died for our freedom and feeling united under a common flag.
I know it sounds like an antiquated concept. The prevailing mindset now is to create divisiveness rather than unity.
Hifi
1:35 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Jp, I don't disagree, but the Pledge does none of that. BTW, do you know anything about why the Pledge was written? Best not to speak from ignorance?
Francis Bellamy was a former Baptist minister who preached that Jesus was a socialist and advocated income taxation, central banking, nationalized education, nationalization of industry, and other tenets of socialism. His challenge was how to replace the federalist view of the country (where states and individual rights were sovereign) with a nationalist one that would pave the foundation for a central socialist government. Re-education of the public would prove difficult. But if American youth could to be taught "loyalty to the state", it would pave the way for the socialist utopia that was described in his famous socialist cousin Edward Bellamy's book, 'Looking Backward".
Hifi
1:40 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
[Francis Bellamy continued...]
The place to start would need to be primary education. The public schools could be used teach blind obedience to the central state. The opportunity to write a children's oath that would promote flag worship (and sales) was perfect. So in 1892, Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance: A universal tool for inducing children to swear their loyalty to the concept of an American nation-state. The "one nation, indivisible" wording was especially important for achieving his vision of socialism through a consolidated, monopoly government. To drive home the socialist goals, he ended it with a call for "liberty and justice." He had considered adding the other socialist bywords, "fraternity and equality," but knew that state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and Negroes and would oppose it.
Students were taught to recite the Pledge with their arms outstretched, open palm pointing to the flag. This was the custom in American public schools from the turn of the twentieth century until Hitler began using it to drill loyalty into his followers. He got it from the Italian fascists, who much admired - you guessed it - American schoolchildren doing it. Around 1950, public school officials for some reason suddenly decided that the salute was in bad taste.
If you want to see what the original vision of indoctrination looked like go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute. If that doesn't give you pause...
Jp
1:44 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Hifi, the historical perspective is interesting, but really, it's irrelevant. The Star Spangled Banner is set to the tune of an old English drinking song, does that make it any less important.
Now I'm with you that rote recitation does little to honor the Country. I mentioned in an earlier post that I had a grade school teacher that went through line by line and we discussed what "allegiance" "republic", etc. really meant. So at least we know what we were saying.
Heck, it doesn't even have to be the pledge - but I think there is something important about rising together as a class and honoring the Country. Maybe the preamble to the Declaration of Independence would be more appropriate.
But a 'Green Earth" pledge - "I pledge allegiance to Solyndra..." Please.
Jen Marsh
12:50 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
I respectfully disagree, Mr. or
Miss Anonymous. The whole point of this article, is found in the first paragraph of the to the editor. “What is so wrong about teaching our children to respect the country they live in and to pay tribute to those who have sacrificed and fought earnestly for our liberties?”.
Jen Marsh
12:51 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
*of the letter to the editor, I meant.
Hifi
1:10 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Nothing about the Pledge practice in schools teaches respect. It is rote recitation; no one ever explains what it means or where it came from.
How exactly does forcing kids to say the Pledge respect any kind of "liberties" that soldiers fought for? If you ask me you pro-Pledgers are the fascists, you are spit in the face of freedom when people don't line up the way you want them to. And worse, you're a bunch of bullies and hypocrites, wanting to force little kids to do something that you would never do. You'd say the Pledge every day, would you, on a schedule mandated by Obama?
Colin C.
12:52 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
I do not intend to imply that it is in any way wrong to teach children of any age to say the Pledge but rather that simply doing so is not necessarily going to instill patriotism. Real patriotism comes from something much deeper than simply repeating a few words every day. I tend to be somewhat suspicious of those who loudly proclaim their own patriotism while questioning others who do not choose to express their own in the same way.
Hifi
12:53 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Could this whole issue be more ironic? Problem: "They've taken out "liberty" from the Pledge. Fascism is upon us." Solution: "Have the government make kids line-up and solute. What's all this about anyone having freedom to do what they want."
And here's Andrea wanting to limit citizens these freedoms based on the old fallacy that the Pledge of Allegiance has something to do with honoring soldiers and war? No it doesn't. It was written to sell flags and indoctrinate socialist-style nationalism in little kids. Period. No dead soldiers.
Hifi
1:00 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Andrea, let me answer your question, “What is so wrong about teaching our children to respect the country they live in and to pay tribute to those who have sacrificed and fought earnestly for our liberties?” To easy!
Enough reasons here for anyone, liberal or conservative, religious or atheist to have the Pledge of Allegiance removed from public schools:
1. Meaning lost in endless repetition, no explanation given, no history provided.
2. Comprises an ideological viewpoint that is forced on little kids by authorities to whom they are dependent.
3. The two above, taken together, is the definition of brainwashing.
4. The absurdity of having to repeat a pledge daily that apparently is only good for 24 hours.
5. The conforming routine of it, which makes you feel like a brain-dead robot sheep as opposed to a citizen of a free country who enjoys individual liberty.
6. Subordinates the people to the government, which we are told on good authority was created by us, with allegiance to us, not us to it.
7. Exalts nationalism over federalism contrary to the basic principles of our Republic. Subsuming states and individual rights to central government is a necessary pre-requisite for a centralized, socialist government to gain traction. This was an explicit goal of Francis Bellamy, the socialist author of the PofA.
Hifi
1:00 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
[Reasons continued.. ]
9. Concocted by a company that sold flags as part of a plan to compel schools to buy more flags while instilling socialist-style nationalism in American children.
10. Unsavory connection with Nazis. The Pledge originally featured the Nazi-style salute. In fact, Hitler got it from the Italian fascists who much admired, that's right, kids in America doing it while saying the Pledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B... (Man, if that doesn't give you chills)
11. Is patriotic lip-service in place of, even at the expense of, actual civic engagement and action. (Symbolic patriotism)
12. Is uncritical patriotism at the expense of maintaining oversight over government. (Blind patriotism)
13. Considered by many Christians idolatry, taking the name of God in vain, swearing oaths, serving two masters.
14. Divides the nation (and the classroom) along religious lines. Only those represented by the Judeo-Christian "God" need apply as patriots (Ironic that "under God", comes right before "indivisible.")
15. Is hypocritical on the part of adults, bullying little kids into doing something that adults themselves don't do. (You say the Pledge every day, do you, and on a government schedule mandated by Obama?)
16. And last, but not least, pledging allegiance to a flag is just stupid.
Jen Marsh
1:04 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
I think that it is safe to say that the majority of Americans have no objection to elementary aged children reciting the the pledge, holding their hand over their heart and facing the flag. This talk socialist-style nationalism is a bit over my head, I'm afraid. I try to be thankful for something everyday and have no problem with my children reciting a pledge of allegiance to the United States of America. They can study fascism and socialism whenever they feel inclined to do so.
Jen Marsh
1:07 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
*this talk about...
David Potter
1:04 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Well said, Andrea!
No more taxes
1:16 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Allegiance and loyalty to a country needs to come from more than a pledge. It is more than being born there. It is more than the country's history. Both are important but it is also a reflection of the current state of the country and the leaders representing it. The US is much different now than 150 years ago or 100 or even 50. The nation is improving but is not perfect. I would want the country to earn my loyalty and work to keep it. Forcing a pledge on someone does not ensure allegiance nor loyalty and it is something a "Free Nation" should not have to do.. It is brainwashing to some degree and we are hypocrites as a nation when we think it is ok for the US to do it but not when radical Muslims or the Nazi's etc forced their views on their populations. PS the Constitution gave property holders and white males freedom. Women, Slaves, Indians etc waited quite a while for true freedom. Gays are struggling currently to gain equal footing with others. I do agree a military is necessary for any sovereign nation to remain so. Afganistan/Iraq is not helping us be free, Vietnam was not necessary. Our military is too big and such a drain on the economy that it could lead the US on a downward path if the military industrial complex is not contained. We should not force a pledge of allegiance on anyone nor force our society and values on other countries that are not ready for the change it brings. Let the US lead by example so that others want to emulate us not go to war
Jp
1:30 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
"I would want the country to earn my loyalty and work to keep it."
Fundamental problem.
Jim J
4:06 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
More inportantly (wink, wink), just a few more comments for Andrea and she'll have more than Jeff Ward's conservative hater blog on the same topic. Go commenters Go. And, btw Andrea, nice letter.
Susan Odenthal
8:10 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Just an added thought that I wish corporate America felt more patriotic and less strongly pro globalization. Maybe we would not have to look so hard for that Made in America tag and unemployment would be down. We may believe having our children recite a pledge everyday will foster more patriotism but as they age corporate America has taught them that globalization is the name of the game. Industry currently has no loyalty to country whatsoever ever. children do learn from what they see.
Jack
9:40 am on Tuesday, March 5, 2013
It would appear then, after doing some simple arithmetic, that the fundamental problem of globalization stems from the fact that US workers expect to be paid more than their services are worth.
Why are we blind to the inevitable results of government payments for not working--the direct cause of our inability to recover promptly from this recession? There is work everywhere needing to be done, but we are paying people for two years NOT to go to work. We further obscure the truth when we lie to ourselves about the true unemployment numbers.
The solutions are simple enough, but government under-written sloth makes those solutions impossible. We have millions out of work, yet we continue to buy non-necessity items produced by foreign workers. Are we stupid, or what?
Colin C.
10:29 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Susan, I agree with you but unfortunately corporate America no longer exists. It's now the corporate world and all that they are interested in is making a buck, or rather, as many of them as possible. There is so little morality, sense of fairness, loyalty, or anything beyond simple greed that it makes me ill.
The man who was CEO of AIG, the huge insurance company that was saved by a multi billion dollar bailout is now suing the US Government for charging too much interest and thereby hurting his stockholders. He was the one responsible for nearly bankrupting the company in the first place! He nearly ruined his stockholders and now he is going to sue the government that saved his stockholders from him????
HSBC, the huge international bank just got busted for knowingly laundering drug money and teaching terrorists how to get around legal financial restrictions on moving their money around. All they got for that was a fine that they can write off and make up in profit in a couple of weeks.
For those who want government to be run like a business, be very careful what you wish for.
Yeah, I know, off topic. But hey, I'm ADHD. I can't stay on topic for more than a minute or two anyway.
Justin Eggar
10:52 pm on Monday, January 14, 2013
Out of curiosity, how many people posting to do away with the pledge have served in some uniform service or another. That involved more than sitting behind a desk that is.
That isn't meant to be rude... I am actually curious.
On a different note, I've only heard hearsay on this whole event and I'm not educated enough on what occurred to pass judgement. I'd like to pass on that conversation in any responses.
Jen Marsh
8:11 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
I have never served in the military.
Jack
10:31 am on Tuesday, March 5, 2013
Justin,
About the Pledge: the point admittedly is indoctrination--no two ways about it. That can be bad or it can be good, depending on the principles--the doctrine--being introduced into young minds.
Reciting the Pledge, singing the National Anthem and saluting the flag is a whole lot more comfortable for me when I think of the principles in our Declaration of Independence and in our Constitution. These are the things to which I shall always be faithful.
When I see what our Nation is becoming, then I am not so comfortable with the Pledge. If our flag represents a Nation of unbelievers and scoffers distracted by "bread and circuses", who know little and care less about history and about the inevitable results of continuing in our present direction, then my enthusiasm for the Pledge, the Anthem and the salute wanes.
Yes, I have served. Not only in peace, but also in war. And I took an oath, for which I am still accountable after many years, to "... support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic ...." We have plenty of both types of enemies, and too often--as the comic-strip character Pogo said--some of those enemies are us.
Matilda B
6:55 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
I appreciate Hifi, Colin C , Random dent,and anonymous's comments. Patriotism and respect is taught at home by the parents and their civic behaviors. McGroarty is at minimum, a bullly. And to excuse his willingness to shed blood disregards the public comments and threats to our govenment that right wing extremists have made recently. You should not excuse his behavior, it was inappropriate at best.
Jen Marsh
8:05 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Ms. Matilda,
The topic is about teaching the pledge in public schools. I am prompted to say that Mr. McGroarty is not. There has not been any defending of his choices, when he was at Mill Creek School.
Robert Jr.
7:20 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
The words, "Press 1 for English, Press 2 for ________, Press 3 for ___________" do nothing but divide the unity of a nation through a divisive language policy.
Also, Patriotism should start at the top. When Billy Boy got caught with his pants down (literally) and when the Senate Banking and Finance Committee members were allowed to remain in public office after overseeing the greatest failure of policy and regulation in history of the financial markets, then one may question... what is THEIR allegience? To lobbyists and foreign slave labor sweat shops intended to serve publicy traded companies at the expense of preserving democracy and freedom for individuals. The broader context of this blog , for me at least, is to ask, "What is Patriotism, and what interests are being served by elected officials that lower the nations credit rating, promote outsourced labor, and have no accountability for failures. Where is their demonstration of patriotism. The kids in school demonstrate more patriotism in action, and actions speak louder than words. Rather than focus on the Pledge itself, let's look at the people violating the Pledge and choosing self interest over national security. Parents can teach the Pledge. Schools can teach knowledge. Government officials are the biggest violators of the Pledge of allegience, and it is difficult to see where they are loyal
Hifi
11:30 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
They say that, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". In that case, the Pledge, being only lip-service to patriotism, must be the last refuge of a crook when a politician puts it on display.
Matilda B
8:18 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Jen- the first sentence of the letter looks like an endorsement to me
Jen Marsh
8:24 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
"What we see depends mainly on what we look for."
-John Lubbock
Artemis Susan
8:32 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Thank you Andrea for your well written article. You articulate the feelings many of us share and the questions you pose deserve our most serious consideration. We must stand up and speak up. We must demonstrate by example and teach our and all children. I am a USAF veteran. Freedom is not free. We must cherish and protect it, lest it fade away under the noise of entitled, self serving individuals.
Pat R
8:47 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Great job Andrea! You certainly have folks talking and thinking this morning. While perhaps an over simplification, it seems the words of an old Simon and Garfunkel song might be appropriate - "teach your children well". I hope the parents responding to your letter are taking responsibility for some of this teaching on respect, love of country, etc. Putting a flag up on the front of the house, and explaining why to the kids. The love of country can be placed in their minds and hearts before they get on the bus in the morning - pledge or no pledge at school. Just my two cents..
Jack
10:51 am on Tuesday, March 5, 2013
"Teach your children well...." --Crosby, Stills, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVaqZajq-I
Jennifer
9:12 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
I am shocked and saddened to read statements regarding the current youth and their perceived lack of understanding what sacrifice for their country would entail. Someone stated.." With each passing generation we become a little more removed from the concept of duty and sacrifice" And another person stated.."The problem with our generation and younger is that we don't know what it is like to sacrifice for the go our country."
I can't believe what I am reading! Did we forget about the soldiers dying in wars as we sit behind our computers? The current youth have known nothing but war in their lives. My children and myself attended the funeral for a soldier in Batavia last year. I believe he was 18 years old. My children's cousin served in both Iraq and Afghanistan recently. My school aged kids sent him letters and packages while he fought in those wars. The current youth are signing up and committing to serve our country with the threat of war and death on the horizon. We are not out of the woods yet. Those wars are winding down but the kids signing up today with Uncle Sam surely know what they might be sacrificing. Thank a soldier today. Yes, young people are out there serving their country right now! I believe the kids in school today, reciting the pledge, surely understand the ultimate sacrifice more than we realize. They have witnessed it their whole lives.
No more taxes
10:56 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
There is a reason why older people are not drafted nor usually serve in wars. They are past the point where risking their life for no reason makes sense. Iraq and Afghanistan have nothing to do with America and neither country was or is a threat to our national security. The terrorists were Saudis and Pakistan harbors terrorists yet we give them billions and don't attack them. We went to war in Korea and Vietnam over "communism" yet now are in business with China and owe them $$$. War sells papers and gets ratings for TV. It sells guns and keeps millions employed that vote. Dying today in Iraq/Afghanistan accomplishes what? How is it patriotic? What is it accomplishing for the US? The debt it is causing is hurting our country not helping. We have a base in Saudi Arabia. We could have frozen their cash and forced them to get Bin Laden. That base also keeps the Saudi rulers in power and is why our presence there is not wanted and causes issues with the radical Muslims. Iran does not like us because we kept the Shah in power for years. We supported Sadam Hussein and supplied him early on in Iraq. There are many dictators and bad regimes everywhere. We can't fight them all nor do we care to. Usually we are right behind those dictators supporting them. We don't like Cuba but sure do get a lot of oil from Venezuela. Wonder what is really behind our foreign policy?
Duty to our country should be simple. Work and study hard, follow the laws, treat others nicely.
Colin C.
10:22 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
I've been debating saying this but I just as well get myself in trouble again. My first memory was Pearl Harbor. I was three. I remember WWII seen through the eyes of a child. We lived on the east coast and it was real. Blackout drills, war bond drives, German prisoners of war transported through town. A great sense of mutual sacrifice shared for a great purpose.
Then came the ambiguity of Korea. Technically we are still at war there. Was anything really gained?
Viet Nam. I was too old for the draft but lost three good friends and two students. For what? It is now clear that we were lied to by our Government time and again. I think that those who profited from that war, politicians and businesses used "patriotism" as a way of rallying support for what many saw as a tragic farce from the beginning. So many brave, dedicated, promising young lives wasted on the egos of two Presidents and a dysfunctional Department of Defense. Which was the more patriotic, to support that war or protest it?
And now, once again. We were lied to about Iraq and so many brave and dedicated people are lost, for what? And still we slog on in Afghanistan with no good resolution in sight, with our best and bravest being put in harm's way in the name of patriotism.
I guess, at some level I can understand the motives of the politicians who sit in their deeply padded chairs sending our kids off to war but I cannot understand why so many of us blindly support them. Is that patriotism?
Jen Marsh
10:33 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
We are ALL sitting our deeply padded chairs, frankly. I still think children should be taught the pledge.
Jen Marsh
10:34 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
*sitting in
Tom Brown
11:35 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Colin:
No, that is not patriotism.
Patriotism is what is explained in the Pledge of Allegiance...the one with God in it. We don't pledge to Rumsfeld or the generals who lied to Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon about our chances over there to preserve their prestige. The presidents, I think, really thought they were doing what was best for the country at the time.
I think it's a question of us molding the world in our favor or leaving it up to someone else, which never turns out well. How'd you like Putin or someone pulling the strings over there? You may see this in your lifetime, especially if we keep teaching our children this way.
No More Taxes:
Your simplistic view of these little countries is astounding. N. Korea has a massive government sponsored counterfeiting program...printing our money and spreading it around. Cyber attacks coming from terrorist groups with bases in little countries like Sudan, Yemen, Syria, Malaysia and Afghanistan. There are a lot of ways to tear down a country besides hurling missiles at it. Turning us against ourselves is one of the best and we seem to be doing it to ourselves.
"Work and study hard, follow the laws, treat others nicely." Really? By that measure, we'd all become soldiers...or Chinese peasants. What happens when these things conflict? "Follow the laws" might conflict with "Treat others nicely"...Like when you are IN A WAR. Study hard? Study WHAT?
Hifi
12:15 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Tom, Wow, looks like the Pledge sure worked on you. War-monger much?
Tom Brown
11:04 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Wow! I did not know all that was going on! "I pledge allegiance to the earth"????
Cripes! We just gave these fools a raise??? Again???
No flags in classrooms? Who do they think pays their bills? The "Earth"?
I was kinda on the fence about this teacher pay thing, but if they're going to brainwash the kids with whatever pop philosophy they seem to think is cool today and not teach the basics, I think it's time for some serious changes.
Stand up. Say the pledge with your hand over your heart. If you want to complain, tell you parents. They'll explain it...Jeez, I hope so anyway.
Despite our differences, we have to stick together on a few things. Love of country is one of those things. If we have that, we can solve the rest...Together.
s
Jen Marsh
11:30 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Yes...my thoughts, exactly.
Hifi
12:00 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
I think the one thing we can stick together on is no brainwashing, especially by the government. Pledging allegiance is anti-federal. When the Pledge was first rolled out in the late 19th century, conservatives were highly suspect that it would undermine federalism. Federalism makes states and individuals equal to the national government.
It's not an accident that a socialist wrote the Pledge for the express purpose of inculcating nationalism in hapless children, so that their highest allegiance would be serving the central, monopoly government.
Let's all agree on leaving politics out of the schools. Teach children civics, the Constitution, history and let them decide for themselves if the current form of American government appeals.
No more taxes
12:57 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Tom, my view isn't simplistic I just only have so many letters or time allowed in these posts. N. Korea we have done nothing about for over 60 years now and sat by while they developed nuclear weapons. We could have sat down with China and told them to handle it or we would and how that could effect our trade with them. Cyber attacks? Are we going to send troops to every country that some terrorists move to? You seem to be in favor of us molding the world in our favor but we have consistently supported dictators and not cared about promoting democracy in those countries. My point on being a good person / good American was that we have many problems in this country not caused by other countries and terrorists. We lose more to drunk drivers yearly than have been killed overseas the last 10 years. We shoot our own in our streets, safer in Afghanistan then Englewood for some. Our business leaders will rob corporations for their own good, lay off thousands, send jobs overseas and walk away with cash in their pocket but leaving a company in worse shape when they took over. Many of our problems are our own fault. We want cheap goods even if our neighbor loses his job, we want healthcare but don't want the poor to have access, until we our laid off and need it, we complain about gas prices but drive cars that our too big for our needs...
JC
2:37 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Tom,
Wow, do you know what you are talking about?
Teachers do not determine whether or not the pledge is said in the classroom. as posted above teachers are also not allowed to compel students to act in a particular way during the pledge if it is said. You post as if all of the evils are the teachers' fault. if you wish to speak intelligently on this matter please educate yourself from some other source than the one you currently use as it is blatantly obvious that the source you use perpetuates lies about the teaching profession.
All those who are so wholeheartedly agreeing with Tom please see above.
Jen Marsh
11:40 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
I am all for critical thinking but it does seem like a whole lot of negativity towards being patriotic.
Your point of view is something personal to you. It is no one's truth but yours.
Hifi
12:20 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
So you believe your point of view is useless, why share it? But you're right, you can be wrong in your point of view if you're not informed and don't exercise critical thinking. For example, you can see negativity towards a meaningless daily chant, or you can see negativity from people like you about our great schools, devoted teachers and awesome kids, the best of whom exercise their freedom of speech on a daily basis by refusing to stand for a ridiculous brainwashing exercise.
JC
1:18 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
It is time for a history lesson. The flag is a symbol that has evolved from the coats of arms of the feudal lords under which the lord’s armies fought. In America “We the People” are the lords for which the military fights. Contrary to the position made by radicals the pledge is not any type of indoctrination, rather it is a reminder of the responsibilities of living in a democracy. Our freedoms have been secured by brave men and women who have potentially been injured in the performance of their duties. We have the duty to honor, respect and take care of those willing to die for the freedoms we enjoy.
I have grown tired of members of both parties attacking positions without proof of what they are claiming. I was under the impression that the pledge and a moment of silence are mandated each day by the state of Illinois by law. If this is true then the right should be very happy as this is evidence of how power is in the hands of the states. There have been printings in this paper that claim that Obama is somehow responsible for the pledge in class. My issues are very simple, if the author of this Op-Ed is correct there are many schools violating the law and the schools are incorrect.
HIFI, there are some of your posts that I find intriguing and have warranted research on my part but the tendency to rant and attack is disconcerting to me
Jeannie Cormier Scown
1:52 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
I just have to say yikes! We ignore pollution that harms us, we ignore the thieves that stole our 401Ks, we ignore those that buy our elections, we ignore the hungry that live within a mile of us, we ignore the abused, the unhealthy, the poor, the mentally ill....but we're all good if we say the pledge "under God"...
Jen Marsh
2:02 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Ms. Scown,
This discussion is about the pledge. A new thread about the issues you have mentioned would be ideal. However, I have not compared the importance or degree of offense to changing or omitting the pledge to any of the things you have mentioned. Can this issue be it's own? After all, the above letter is about reciting the flag. Why lump it in the pile of other problems? Does that mean that because I am voicing my opinion on this issue, I am not using my time/intelligence effectively?
Terry Flanagan
1:21 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Frankly I'm kind of surprised that we're even having this discussion because this was not the first or only question that came to my mind when I heard about this incident. In fact, it wasn't even on my radar. Questioning people's patriotism has been in vogue the past few years. However, patriotism is not determined by reciting the pledge of allegiance, or by whether or not you wear a flag pin on your lapel, or whether or not you display the flag or know the words to the Star Spangled Banner. It's measured by how well you live up to the ideals upon which this country was founded. I certainly don't think this incident was any display of patriotism or an example of following the principles that made this nation great. Patriotism is not only found on the battlefield but wherever one takes a stand for liberty and justice for all. And no matter how fervently you recite the pledge, it's pointless if you don't put those ideals into practice.
No more taxes
4:30 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
well said
Matilda B
2:09 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Jeannie and Terry, you are right. Jen, only you can answer your last line while the rest of us will have our opinions on it
Jen Marsh
2:15 pm on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Ms. B,
Just staying on topic.
Jp
7:44 am on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
I'm wondering, has the flag in the classroom been replaced by a portrait of the GEA Party Chairman?
Kl
7:14 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Looks like Jeff Ward is trying to ride your coattails today, Andrea.
juicebox
9:46 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
no room in our school systems for threats to our children or to our teachers from the american flag is not america. It has no rights under the constitution. i believe any natural born citizen should be responsible for reciting the pledge. any pledge will do and if you disagree with it, have your kids ignore it. on another note: individuals carrying a grudge, when you lose your wife, your kids, your house, arrested for illegal entry and who knows what else, no one should ever have to face a risk at the school where our kids go. what about parents using alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, pills... who?, usually the ones hitting bottom.